ORLAN on the BODY

ORLAN is one of the 11 faces of the new CYBER campaign of Jean Paul Gaultier, directed by TORSO. The artist talks to Novembre about the BODY.

Interview: Jeanne-Salomé Rochat

www.orlan.eu
fashion.jeanpaulgaultier.com

I AM ORLAN, AMONG OTHER THINGS, MY NAME IS TO BE WRITTEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO BE LOST IN THE CROWD, I DON’T WANT TO BE LOST AMONG THE OTHERS. I AM AN ARTIST WHO IS NOT SUBJECT TO A MATERIAL, TO AN ARTISTIC PRACTICE, TO A WAY OF SAYING, TO A TECHNIQUE OR TO A TECHNOLOGY, WHETHER IT IS OLD OR NEW. I TRY TO SAY IMPORTANT THINGS FOR MY TIME BY QUESTIONING SOCIAL PHENOMENA BUT ALWAYS WITH A CRITICAL DISTANCE. I WORK ON THE STATUS OF THE BODY IN SOCIETY, VIA ALL THE PRESSURES: CULTURAL, TRADITIONAL, POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE BODIES AND IN PARTICULAR WITH THE BODIES OF WOMEN.

I AM POLITICAL, MY BODY IS POLITICAL, MY PRIVACY IS POLITICAL.

Tell us in a few sentences how you look back at the moment when you emerged as an artist. What was the context, and what was on your mind?

I BEGAN MY WORK WITH SCULPTURE, DRAWING AND PAINTING, THEN I CONSIDERED THE BODY AS A MATERIAL BECAUSE I AM A BODY, NOTHING BUT A BODY, A WHOLE BODY AND IT IS MY BODY THAT THINKS. I AM POLITICAL, MY BODY IS POLITICAL, MY PRIVACY IS POLITICAL.

IN THE 70'S I CREATED MY SERIES "BODY-SCULPTURE" AND I QUESTIONED THE WESTERN CULTURE WITH A CRITICAL DISTANCE. IT WAS VERY SURPRISING IN 1966 TO SEE A WORK LIKE MINE ATTEMPT TO BREAK THE FRAME. THIS WORK WAS A GREAT PILLAR IN MY BODY OF WORK AND HELPED ME QUESTION MY WHOLE CAREER.

How do you look at your role as an artist, in the world of today?

AT THE MOMENT I AM INCONSOLABLE, I FEEL LIKE MY LIFE HAS BEEN FOR NOTHING BECAUSE AFTER ALL, EVERYTHING IS CLOSING IN.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE CANNOT SHOW A BODY - A FEMALE BREAST - ON INSTAGRAM OR FACEBOOK WITHOUT THE PUBLICATION BEING DELETED OR BLURRED? FOR ME IT IS REALLY LUDICROUS. TODAY WE ARE UNDER THE TYRANNY OF CENSORSHIP, LIKE WHEN ALL THE MASTERPIECES OF MICHAELANGELO IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL WERE RECANTED.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ABORTION, CONTRACEPTION OR MARRIAGE FOR ALL ARE QUESTIONED? WE DON'T ASK THOSE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE NOT TO GET MARRIED OR TO GET DIVORCED OR TO HAVE AN ABORTION OR TO BE HOMOSEXUAL. IT SHOULD BE TOTALLY SYMMETRICAL AND RECIPROCAL FOR BOTH PARTIES AND NOBODY SHOULD INTERFERE IN THE LIFE OF OTHERS.

I WILL THEREFORE CONTINUE TO QUESTION THE SOCIAL PHENOMENA OF MY TIME. I ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE THINGS MOVE. I WANT TO UNHINGE THEM. ALL MY LIFE I HAVE TRIED TO GET OUT OF THE FRAME, TO MOVE THE BARS OF THE CAGE. THE ROAD IS STILL LONG. FOLLOWING THE PHENOMENA OF SOCIETY, MY WORK EVOLVES. AT THE MOMENT, I AM INTERESTED IN NFTS, IN ENDANGERED ANIMALS WITH A NEW SERIES MADE IN FIBER OPTICS, IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. I AM DOING A SELF-HYBRIDIZATION WITH A MAYAN SCULPTURE, COMMISSIONED BY THE MAYAN MUSEUM OF MERIDA IN MEXICO WHERE I WILL HAVE AN EXHIBITION IN DECEMBER. AFTER PUBLISHING MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY "STRIPTEASE; EVERYTHING ABOUT MY LIFE, EVERYTHING ABOUT MY ART", I AM WRITING MY FIRST NOVEL!

Do you feel like there are other lives for you, beyond, or outside of your art practice?

I AM AN ARTIST WHO DOES NOT PUT BOUNDARIES BETWEEN ART AND LIFE; I LIKE IT WHEN THE TWO MERGE! MY LIFE IS MY ART; MY ART IS MY LIFE! I GIVE MYSELF ENTIRELY TO MY ART, DAY AND NIGHT, WEEKEND AND VACATIONS!

What does creativity require, in your personal opinion and experience?

CREATIVITY ALONE IS NOT WORTH MUCH. WHAT COUNTS IS TO PUT THIS CREATIVITY AT THE SERVICE OF A CAUSE, TO DEFEND A CONCEPT!

ON THE OTHER HAND, TO SURVIVE IN THE ART WORLD YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD, HAVE GREAT DISCIPLINE AND ALWAYS QUESTION YOURSELF. TO THINK IS ALWAYS TO THINK AGAINST ONESELF! ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE A WOMAN! YOU HAVE TO WORK TWICE AS HARD, FIGHT TWICE AS HARD! WE FIND VERY FEW WOMEN IN THE BIG MARKET OR IN THE RANKINGS. THE ART WORLD IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY AND DOES NOT SUPPORT WOMEN. YOU KNOW WHAT THE GUERILLA GIRLS SAY: "BEING A WOMAN ARTIST IS FANTASTIC BECAUSE OUR CAREER CAN TAKE OFFAT 80 YEARS OLD!"

Would you say you are a better artist than you used to, in the past?

ALL MY WORK IS THE RESULT OF WHAT I HAVE DONE IN THE PAST. AS MENTIONED BEFORE I THINK THAT MANY OF MY ARTISTIC PILLARS WERE FOUNDED AT THE BEGINNING OF MY CAREER. NEVERTHELESS, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EVOLVE WITH THE TIMES. I'M ALL FOR NOMADIC, SHIFTING AND MUTANT IDENTITIES. I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NOVELTY, CHANGE, EVOLUTION, EMANCIPATION FROM MY OWN SELF. I LOVE TO MARVEL AT MYSELF, TO DO THINGS I NEVER IMAGINED I COULD DO! I AM ALWAYS ON A QUEST OF TECHNOLOGICAL AND MEDICAL INNOVATION...

You say "all your work is against the stereotype" (to Artnet, in 2021). What are the main stereotypes of today?

THE STEREOTYPES ARE ALWAYS THERE. THEY ARE VULGAR SHORTCUTS, A SIMPLISTIC WAY OF ORGANIZING SOCIETY. THE WOMAN WEAR DRESSES AND THE MAN WEAR PANTS; THE LITTLE BOY LIKES BLUE AND THE LITTLE GIRL LIKES PINK. BUT IT'S EVEN WORSE FOR WOMEN! WOMEN ARE CONSTANTLY TRAPPED IN THE PERPETUAL ROLE OF THE MOTHER, THE GENITRESS, THE LOVER. IT IS INCREDIBLE TO SEE HOW THESE STEREOTYPES AND IDEAS ARE PERENNIAL TODAY, AND HOW WOMEN THEMSELVES FEED THIS IMAGE, ALL THE MORE SO IN A COUNTRY THAT ALLOWS FOR CHOICE! WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY DOMINATED BY MALE THINKING, WHICH TENDS TO IMPOSE THE BEAUTY OF THE WOMAN, ACCORDING TO HIS DESIRES. THEY SEE IN HER A MOTHER AND EXPECT FROM HER A LATENT SUBMISSION. IF IT IS SO ABSURD THAT THE WOMAN IS THE ORIGIN OF THE WORLD AND THAT THE MAN IS UNDOUBTEDLY THE ORIGIN OF THE WAR. I AM WORKING ON A SECOND VERSION OF THE ORIGIN OF WAR 30 YEARS AFTER THE FIRST ONE. IT IS COMMONLY THOUGHT TO REPRESENT THE WOMAN BY HER APPEARANCE AND HER STEREOTYPED BEAUTY. I REJECT THE IDEA OF BEING PUT IN A BOX OUR BODIES THEMSELVES REPRESENT POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES, AND IT IS WITHIN ITSELF A POLITICAL STAND TO REJECT SUCH CONCEPT AND VIEW SUCH BODY AS A SIMPLE FLESHY MASS. I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO SHOW THAT BEAUTY HAS HISTORICALLY ALWAYS DICTATED THE DOMINANT IDEOLOGY OF THE TIME.

Do you feel like there is a profundity in these stereotypes?

BEYOND WANTING TO ESCAPE THE STEREOTYPES OF BEAUTY, WHICH SEEMS OBVIOUS, I WANT TO SHOW HOW MUCH THE BODY, ESPECIALLY THE WOMAN’S, CAN BE AN ARTISTIC, POLITICAL AND SOCIAL MEDIUM. I WANT TO SHOW THE INFINITY OF BEINGS THAT ARE HIDDEN BEHIND THE I, THE REINVENTION OF ONESELF, WHICH ALLOWS US TO BE IN OUR GLOBALITY. I AM NOT, I AM.

I DECIDED TO RESORT TO PLASTIC SURGERY NOT TO CHANGE THE BODY BUT THE BODIES. WE DO NOT HAVE ONLY ONE BODY, WE HAVE BODIES. THE BODY IS A PLAYGROUND THAT DESERVES TO BE EXPLORED. AS A WOMAN, EXPLORING AND CHANGING MY BODY IS A REVENGE AS A WOMAN.. AFTER ALL, THE FLESH IS DISAPPOINTING. OTHER WOMEN THOUGHT MY COSMETIC PROCEDURES WERE TO FIT THE BEAUTY STANDARDS BUT THEY ARE WRONG, I HAD BUMPS PLACED ON MY TEMPLES TO CHALLENGE THE IDEA THAT A WOMAN WITH LUMPS ON HER FACE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AN UNDESIRABLE MONSTER INSTEAD OF THE OPPOSITE THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS I USE TO DIFFERENTIATE MYSELF SHOULD HELP QUESTION THE CONSTRUCTION OF ONESELF.

What do you do when you hit resistance?

RESISTANCE DOESN'T SCARE ME. AS SOON AS YOU DO SOMETHING INNOVATIVE, EVERYONE SAYS IT'S NOT ART AND THAT THE ARTIST IS CRAZY. OFTEN ENOUGH, A FEW YEARS LATER, THE INITIAL THOUGHT CHANGES, LIKE IT HAS HAPPENED REGARDING THE IMPRESSIONIST MOVEMENT. AT FIRST, PEOPLE SAID THEIR ART MADE THEIR EYES HURT AND THAT IF A PREGNANT WOMAN WERE TO SEE A PAINTING SHE WOULD BE SO SHOCKED SHE WOULD GIVE BIRTH RIGHT AWAY.

INNOVATORS ALWAYS HAVE MANY ENEMIES, JUST LIKE WHEN THEY FIRST SAID THE EARTH WAS ROUND I MYSELF RECEIVED BACKLASH AFTER "LE BAISER DE L'ARTISTE". THE SCHOOL WHERE I HAD BEEN TEACHING AND TRAINING NEW SOCIO-CULTURAL ANIMATORS SENT ME A COMPLETELY ILLEGAL TELEGRAM, WHICH SAID: YOUR PUBLIC ATTITUDE OF THE LAST FEW DAYS IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH YOUR ROLE AS A TRAINER. ALL YOUR CLASSES ARE SUSPENDED, WE WILL TAKE ACTION ON YOUR BEHALF" MY STUDENTS IMMEDIATELY WENT ON STRIKE AND CREATED SONGS IN PRAISE OF "LE BAISER DE L'ARTISTE" AND DEMANDED THAT I BE REINSTATED. THIS NEVER HAPPENED, BUT THE WORK ENDED UP BEING MY SIGNATURE PIECE.

Would you say you know yourself?

I KNOW MYSELF SIMPLY BECAUSE I HAVE CREATED MYSELF.

I MIGHT HAVE BUILT MYSELF BUT I ALWAYS MAKE SURE TO LEAVE ROOM TO REDISCOVER MYSELF, TO SURPRISE MYSELF, TO PUSH MYSELF BEYOND MY PAST ACHIEVEMENTS, TO BREAK FREE OF MY CAGE. I AM ALWAYS ALERT. THE VERY NOTION OF "SELF" IS CONSTANTLY REDEFINED, WE ARE CONSTANTLY SOMEONE NEW, SOMEONE ELSE. WE FEEL LIKE WE KNOW OURSELVES BUT IN REALITY WE ARE CONSTANTLY CHANGING, REINVENTING OURSELVES.

I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO REMOVE THE MASK THAT IS FORCED UPON US FROM BIRTH. I HAD MY OWN SURGERY TO CHALLENGE THE IDEA THAT COSMETIC SURGERY’S SOLE PURPOSE IS TO IMPROVE, REJUVENATE OR BEAUTIFY I WANTED TO FIGHT THE PLASTIC SURGERY STEREOTYPES. I'M NOT AGAINST COSMETIC SURGERY BUT AGAINST WHAT WE DO WITH IT. WHAT I LIKE IS THAT IT ALLOWS ME TO REINVENT MYSELF.

How is Orlanoïde doing these days?

IT SEEMED, AS A WOMAN, VERY IMPORTANT TO CREATE AN ARTIFICIALLY INTELLIGENT ROBOT, A MOVING SCULPTURE PERHAPS, CALLED ORLANOID, WITH MIX OF COLLECTIVE AND SOCIAL INTELLIGENCE. THE ROBOT, WHICH LOOKS LIKE ME AND SPEAKS LIKE ME, IS COMPOSED OF A MOVEMENT AND TEXT GENERATOR. . ALTHOUGH IT IS STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS, I BRING IT TO CONFERENCES SO THAT IT CAN SIMULTANEOUSLY TRANSLATE EVERYTHING I SAY IN ENGLISH ALL THE TEXTS THAT COME OUT OF THE TEXT GENERATOR CAN BE PRINTED IMMEDIATELY. ONE OF THESE TEXTS WILL BE PART OF MY UPCOMING SLOW ALBUM! I MADE A GREAT, VERY CONCEPTUAL SLOW SONG WITH CHARLIE MORROW WHERE WE INTERPRET THIS TEXT MADE BY THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE OF MY ORLANOID! ONE COULD ALMOST SAY THAT IT IS A DUET BETWEEN THE ORLANOID AND CHARLIE MORROW!

Do you see technology as something that can remove you from the natural world, or do you see it as something that folds into reality?

I'M NEITHER TECHNOPHILE NOR TECHNOPHOBE BUT I DO LOVE LIVING DURING OUR TIME AND WITH ITS TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES. AS A TEENAGER I WOULD NEVER HAVE THOUGHT POSSIBLE THAT ONE DAY I WOULD HAVE IN MY POCKET AN ANDROID ABLE TO TELL ME EXACTLY WHERE I AM AND WHERE TO GO OR WHERE TO FIND THE NEAREST MUSEUM. I COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED IT ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS EVEN THE ADULTS AROUND ME WERE UNABLE TO ANSWER. VERY EARLY ON, I WAS INTERESTED IN THE FIRST VIDEOS, THE MINITEL (ANCESTOR OF THE INTERNET), WHICH LED ME TO CREATE WORKS USING AUGMENTED REALITY. I DID NOT SIMPLY WANT TO UTILIZE THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY, I USED IT BECAUSE IT ALLOWED ME TO SAY SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

AS FAR AS AUGMENTED REALITY GOES, I HAD MY BODY SCANNED, I MADE IT ARTICULATE AND I PROGRAMMED IT TO DO THE ACROBATICS OF THE PEKING OPERA, WHERE THE WOMAN ARE FORBIDDEN TO ACT AND THE MEN PLAY THE ROLES OF THE WOMEN. IN THE SAME WAY THAT I CREATED "ATTEMPT TO GO OUT OF THE FRAME" I WANTED TO CREATE AN AVATAR WHICH COULD EXCEED THE WORK. VIEWERS ARE ABLE TO SCAN THE QR CODES ON THE MASKS TO MAKE MY OWN FACE APPEAR IN ORDER TO SEE ME PERFORM ACROBATICS.

What are your challenges at the moment?

AFTER MY PERFORMANCE "LE BAISER DE L'ARTISTE", SHOWN AT THE FIAC IN 1977, I PRESENTED "LE SLOW DE L'ARTISTE", AN IMMERSIVE INSTALLATION AT THE CENTQUATRE, WHICH ENDED UP BEING THE STARTING POINT FOR THE LAUNCH OF MY VERY FIRST ALBUM "TOUT SLOW"! I WANT TO OFFER WHAT WE HAVE MISSED THE MOST SINCE MARCH 17, 2020: HUMAN WARMTH, HUGS, BODY-TO-BODY CONTACT... I WANT TO BRING BODIES TOGETHER!

I REALIZED THAT MANY OF MY ASSISTANTS HAD NEVER SLOW DANCED AND I SAID TO MYSELF THAT IT CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS! I HAD TO CREATE SOMETHING FOR YOUNG PEOPLE! WITH THIS PROJECT I WANT TO INTRODUCE AND REVIVE THIS DANCE AS A THERAPEUTIC TREATMENT IN THIS STILL DIFFICULT PERIOD OF RECONSTRUCTION.

I WRITE THE LYRICS OF EACH SLOW SONG AND OFFER THEM TO MUSICIANS IN ORDER TO COMPOSE THE MELODY AND SING MY TEXTS. I THEN RECORD MY VOICE TO CREATE A PERFECT DUET! CURRENTLY, I HAVE CREATED 18 VERY DIFFERENT SLOW SONGS WITH ARTISTS LIKE DEMI MONDAINE (THAT JEAN-PAUL KNOWS VERY WELL), TERRENOIRE, LA FEMME, THE CHICKS ON SPEED, CHARLIE PERRILLAT, KAT MAY, CHARLEMAGNE PALESTINE, LES SANS PATTES, JEAN-CLAUDE DREYFUS, LES TÉTINES NOIRES, THIBAUT BARBILLON, RÉGIS CAMPO, MIMOSA, CHARLIE MORROW, ROMAIN BRAU…

THE ALBUM WILL BE RELEASED IN JANUARY 2023 BUT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DISCOVER THE SLOW SONGS IN ADVANCE IN MY ARTISTIC INSTALLATION AT THE CENTQUATRE! IN THIS INSTALLATION, I WILL INVITE THE SPECT-ACTORS AND SPECT-ACTRESSES TO SLOW DANCE IN TEAMS OF 5 OR 7. THERE WILL ALSO BE AVAILABLE DATES WHERE YOU CAN BOOK A SPECIFIC SPACE IN ORDER TO SLOW DANCE, THERE WILL BE PERFORMANCES, CONCERTS WITH THE ARTISTS, A VIDEO PROGRAM AND SO ON.